Thursday, December 16, 2010

"UW-Whitewater = bullshit education?"


This morning an interesting pair of comments appeared in response to the Gen Ed classes post.  I didn’t want them to be buried in comments, so here they are.  Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...
So what are we going to do about it except complain and whine instead of making the best of the situation and then moving on to the next level. Do not lose sight of the fact that you attend Whitewater, not Harvard, Yale, or some other prestigious and selective institution. If some of the core courses are crummy then reach out and pick up a book and read on your own, or is this too difficult? With all of the information out there now you can just about educate yourself on any subject!


Anonymous said...
Ok, so what does "Do not lose sight of the fact that you attend Whitewater, not Harvard, Yale, or some other prestigious and selective institution" mean?

I mean, seriously, what does that mean?!?!?!? Are you implying that the faculty here are just schmucks? Are you implying that the workload is so high here that we shouldn't expect excellence in our teaching and courses? In fact, the more I think about that last comment, the more offended I am.

Does UW-Whitewater = bullshit education?!?!?!?

If so, I might have to look elsewhere to teach instead of at this loser institution.

15 comments:

  1. But lets be real here instead of getting offended. There are few faculty members teaching on this campus that would not want to be at Duke or Harvard. This does not belittle this campus or the quality of education offered here. If I were a ball player I would want to be playing on the Yankees instead of the Mallards in Madison. Faculty members here do teach too many classes! They have to teach 8 classes a year, and academic staff teach 9. A faculty member at Duke or even at Madison has a significantly reduced teaching load if they even teach at all. We have faculty members here who have written books published by some of the best publishers in the world, but they still have to teach their 8 classes. So think about this when you complain and whine about core courses. Pick up the book and read!!

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  2. So what can we do now to improve the quality of education here? First,reduce faculty and academic staff teaching loads across the board from 8 or 9 to 6. This is a reasonable request and this reduction will give faculty more time to improve their classes. On the student side of the house, we need to stop accepting every student, regardless of their academic preparation, into the University. In order to accomplish this we need to establish admission standards. However, I do not believe the above will happen. We are good talkers but not doers.

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  3. With any education, you don't get what you pay for - you get what you put into it and choose to take out of it.

    I agree that faculty at this university are required to teach too many classes.

    However, I have had amazing, life-changing courses at Whitewater. Why might this be? Well, I have professors who are passionate, for starters. Students can tell when professors care, and a professor's passion is reflected in a student's work. I would even go as far to say that students learn better when faculty are enjoying what they are teaching.

    I took an Intro to Black Culture class my Freshman year. It was an excellent class content-wise, but the professor continually complained about having to teach so many classes, and having students with substandard work. At one point he told me I should not be attending Whitewater, because "[my] writing is too good, and [I am] too smart," and that I should transfer to a "better" school. What the fuck does that mean? First of all, it is assuming I can afford to attend a "better school," and second, it is assuming that the education I am receiving here is poor.

    Because of the power dynamics in a classroom, comments like this tell students A. professors do not like their jobs and would rather be teaching somewhere else B. they have no faith in their students' abilities or potential and C. that they are attending a bad school.

    However, this is an excellent school. We have professors who have spent significant parts of their lives learning and theorizing and re-learning and looking at different aspects of topics they once thought were unidimensional. We have professors who have attended Harvard, Yale, Juilliard, Madison, and so many other great schools. Why are we assuming their classes will somehow be "bullshit" because they teach at Whitewater?

    In fact, I would argue that students have the opportunity for so much more here. With relatively small class sizes, we get more attention from professors and a better understanding of ourselves and the material.

    As far as general education courses go, it is my opinion that all of them are relevant to my education. However, I will agree that some are rather basic, and feel that students who already have knowledge in certain content areas should be allowed to test out of them and take more advanced courses, instead (i.e. World of the Arts. If one already has a firm background in this course, perhaps they could test out of it and take a more specific one in Theatre, Music, Dance, etc.). This way, not only would students be learning more, but professors might be able to teach more advanced classes which interest them more. Just a thought.

    Unfortunately, I don't have time to write any more, so I'll have to end a bit abruptly.

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  4. Ok is it just me or do a couple of these comments overall sound pretty apathetic and pessimistic? You know, if it's just a matter of picking up a book and educating oneself, why even be a student here at Whitewater? Next, I think this issue goes farther than just "educating" oneself, I mean, do we even agree on what it means to "educate" these days?? What is going on is not just someone whining and complaining about the CORE classes, it's someone concerned who is trying to pinpoint the apparent problems and work on a solution, with the interests of other students in mind. I am concerned that students who don't get answers to why they should learn something, why it is relevant to themselves, are not GOING to just pick up a book and read, and when professors aren't giving these explanations, they either don't care themselves or just don't know how to get the students to care. I understand that a student is supposed to get out of an education what he/she puts into it, but sometimes, the student needs effective collaboration, discussion, help thinking critically, and help understanding new perspectives on topics (all things he/she might not get on his/her own). These comments I'm replying to, ANON 3:28AM and ANON 8:59, are frightening. Do you really care so little to say things such as "if the CORE classes are crummy...pick up a book and read on your own"??? I say, if the CORE classes are crummy, let's figure out why that could be considered a valid opinion in the first place, and then try to fix the problem! And this "fix" won't just be more work for professors...why add on to the amount of work they are already doing when all that might be needed is a little reform? I recall someone saying the CORE classes have been the same for the last 17 years. So, if we don't care to fix this, then we just let it go, read on our own, still pay money for the classes, let the issue float, and the world will just go on right? WRONG!! Think about what you are saying!!!

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  5. Keep the debate going! Most professors that I know love to teach but this is not enough to pay the bills in a capitalist society. Last time I checked they do not accept "I love teaching" as currency at local grocery stores. Faculty at Whitewater have not received a decent raise in over three years, and to make matters worse they had to give back 3 percent of their current salary and their salary,already low to begin with but a new day is coming. Labor unrest is coming to Wisconsin! Fed up with the current state of affairs, faculty are forming unions on just about every UW campus. So think about this before you criticize the faculty. They are mad as hell and cannot take it anymore.

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  6. Over the past 25 years, UW administration has proved time and time again that it does not give a shit about liberal arts faculty or liberal arts in general. So don't buy into that LEAP crap of promoting the liberal arts. They have to do something to keep the charade going. For more than 20 years, liberal arts faculty have been housed in substandard buildings and nothing was ever done about it. The new business building, Hyland Hall, sits right on top of Salisbury Hall, former home of L&S. Salisbury was a real dump, so decrepit that even the state building commission refused to provide funds for repairs and upgrades. On top of this crap, the building smelled like **** and it also contained a large amount of asbestos. White Hall is just a tab bit better, but at least it has large bathrooms. The other buildings on campus, Heide, McCutheon, and Roseman, are also dumps. However, lets at least give our esteemed administration a little credit, after all, they renovated Hyer Hall, a former dump, but the finished product turned out so good that they commandeered it for themselves. Now they have plush and commodious offices with wonderful views of the campus but lets face it, they have the juice. So liberal arts faculty lost out again. Would the next construction on campus be for the long suffering liberal arts faculty? Sorry Charlie, but only the best tuna gets into this can. Our esteemed administration decided to construct new digs for the business faculty. This decision was communicated to the faculty during a campus wide meeting where a few public verbal beat downs of protesting faculty members took place, enough to silence any future protests of Lord Vader's decision. So what now? The long range plan is to give liberal arts faculty the left overs. After a little spit and paint is applied to Carlson, this building will become the new home for the liberal arts faculty, but look at it from the bright side, there is a nice parking lot right next door.



    Salisbury Sam lives!

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  7. All I can say is that some faculty think their hot shit and belong in Harvard or Yale. Im not naming names, but I just had one profesor in the humanities who held her coffee cup whenever she taught and acted like she just wanted to get out of their to go back to her research. And I had another humanitites professor who was such a snob. He only liked students who kissed his ass and played smart.

    I dont know why Im saying this. Maybe faculty need to not think they are so excellent sometimes. I didnt learn much at all in those classes.

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  8. I call "whiny-poo" on Anon 5:54! Be glad you have a damn job, especially with that attitude. Maybe we need to step up our "liberal arts" courses to prove that we are indispensable. Do something new, do something exciting. Complaining is old and boring.

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  9. Anon 11:20 Whoopee, we better shut this site down and heed anon 11:20 message to stop complaining and be thankful we have a job. Yes sir your grace.

    Salisbury Sam

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  10. why are we pretending to pass blame around as if it changes anything? Who cares if it's the "student's fault," the "faculty's fault," or the "institution's fault?" None of those can change the fact that the student's role is to learn, the professor's role is to teach, and the institution's role is to provide an environment in which the latter two can fill their respective roles as effectively as possible.

    There is probably some element of "student laziness" that we would be able to observe by placing such students in ideal institutions with ideal faculty. Such institutions would still be infinitely better than non-ideal institutions, which would fail to properly educate plenty of non-lazy students as well as the lazy ones.

    The point is that saying things like "why don't you pick up a book" is something that no faculty member has any business saying. What are you accomplishing by hoping for your students to magically become better? Do your job, and if something gets in your way that you are _capable of changing,_ deal with that too.

    this applies to students too, so I don't hate the "read a book" statement entirely. But I do read, and I do go above and beyond in my education to some extent. That's because I'm focused on myself and my own goals, as opposed to passively opining about a situation that I have no immediate intention to change, or uselessly casting blame. If I'm a baseball team dealing with a bad umpire, I don't bitch about it unless I seriously believe that bitching might influence him somehow. Otherwise, I have a game I should be focusing on instead--and maybe after the match I can campaign for umpires to be supplanted with technology.


    Anyway, to answer the question: yes, UW Whitewater provides bullshit education from my experience (some gen eds, some business). almost zero of my classes have challenged me to exert any sort of critical thinking whatsoever. I'm not sure who to blame, but, then again, it doesn't really matter.

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  11. I am glad I got a damn job but...

    I know anon 11:20 is glad to have a "damn" job but is anon also happy with his salary because it is not going up anytime soon. If you followed recent contract negotiations of other state workers, you have an idea of what's in store for UW faculty. Walker is not playing any games. Unless he is stopped by collective action, he is going to kick some serious booty. After all, here is a man who returned all that stimulus money and killed the high speed rail project in Wisconsin. In the first place Walker believes faculty are overpaid and should be glad to have a damn job. So don't get your hopes up and expect any raises from this governor. For sure, the current 3 percent furlough will be continued, perhaps even increased. State workers, including faculty, will have to pay more for health care. To conclude, there is nothing wrong with being happy that you got a damn job but at least work to make the conditions better and if all you do is complain then complain loud so others can hear ya. Students and faculty in France, Greece, and London are in the streets "complaining" and demonstrating against their state's austerity policies. It may be time for students and faculty in Wisconsin to hit the streets and complain. We may need mass action to push back Scotty Walker!

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  12. yo, since when does 'pick up a book' mean something bad? This is a university, right?

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  13. "pick up a book" doesn't mean something bad... it just can't alone be the remedy

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  14. @Anon 7:05 AM - Clearly you learned nothing in your Gen Ed English courses. Spelling, for instance ...

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  15. Change has come to America! Sam has learned that the General Education head honcho has convened a special meeting of core course instructors (students should have invited) for the sole purpose of discussing ways to enhance core courses. Sam is going to resist the urge to be cynical, for this effort may turn out to be a step in the right direction. However, Sam hopes this is not the rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic, but a sincere effort to implement meaningful change in core courses. Now Sam still believes they should be vaporized and he likes the Harvard model, but he is not too cynical to acknowledge that it may be possible to put a little more frosting on the cake and serve it up again. So lets roll with it. Win it for the gipper! Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!

    Sam

    Sam

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