Wednesday, December 29, 2010

Are you going to hell?: Campus Crusade for Christ might say you are! (contributor post)

I saved this contributor post till after'll see why...

I was wondering what people thought about this:

I’m uncomfortable with some of our “faith-based” student organizations.  The one I’m thinking of in particular and one that I attended a few times (and quickly got out of) is Campus Crusade for Christ.  I’m uncomfortable because they believe that anyone who does not believe the way they do is going to hell.  I’m a Christian btw.  But I do not think that everyone is going to hell because of some ultra-conservative reading of the Bible. 

They have a very particular reading of the Bible and they are not afraid to share it.  This is from their tract called, “Heaven or Hell: Which will you choose?”

Jesus and the New Testament writers use every image in their power to tell us that Hell is real, terrible, something to be feared and avoided at all costs. Never forget that the talk about outer darkness and the lake of fire came from Jesus, who died to save us.
In His parable of the last judgment Jesus taught that some would go to eternal punishment, some to eternal life (Matthew 25:46). In other words, Hell will be as real and lasting as Heaven.
The most frightening thing about Hell is that it is spiritual separation from God, moral remorse, the consciousness that one deserves what he is getting. Hell is total separation from the love, joy, and peace that come from God.

Are you going?
“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36). “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:41-42).

Which will you choose?
You must decide where you will spend eternity. Jesus Christ has paid the full penalty for your sins on the cross. “Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God” (1 Peter 3:18). Now you must come to Him just as you are—a guilty sinner unable to save yourself. Commit your life to Christ today! You can pray something like this:
God, thank You for sending Jesus to take the punishment for my sins that I might spend eternity in Heaven with You. I turn from my sin and invite You into my life to be my Lord and Savior. In Jesus’ name, amen.

Portions of this text were written by Leighton Ford. ©1974 Campus Crusade for Christ, Inc. Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.

What I’m uncomfortable about is that Campus Crusade for Christ and their view that many on campus are going to hell is supported in some way by our university.  Our university allows them to be a student organization, and doesn’t that in some way mean that the university is ok with their viewpoint?  Doesn’t that mean that the university is in some way supporting their viewpoint?  I would think that our university wouldn’t allow the KKK to start a student organization here because of the kind of views they have.  So why allow Campus Crusade for Christ?  They don’t belong here at our university.

And since our university is a state university, what happened to the separation between church and state?  Freedom of speech is one thing, but making Campus Crusade for Christ an actual student organization is another.  Right?


  1. Now wait a damn minute here. It is not fair to equate Campus Crusaders for Christ with a known racist and violent organization like the KKK. Besides, towards the end of last semester, the University had a diversity love fest. With all this diversity love in the air, it would not look nice if Whitewater turned around and banned Campus Crusade for Christ? Hang on, the rapture may solve the problem, but stay out of airplanes!


  2. Jesus did not talk about the lake of fire. That is from _Revelation_.

    Don't they know their Bible?

  3. To be fair in October last semester there was a diversity rally but Campus Crusade declined to be part of the event even though it wasn't just about LGBT issues, it was a response to ALL the hate crimes going on all over campus and the country. They didn't want to be known for supporting LGBT in any way, yet it didn't stop Kim Hixson as he ran for a poltical office from making a personal appearance. My source is actually being at the event.

    People are going to do what they will. One thing people will learn is that everyone has a agenda. I don't think we should ban the org but i think that it may be effective to call them out on the very information posted here. As quoted in the movie Training Day " It's not what you know , it's what you can prove" and the proof is here that they aren't quite as on the up and up as they make themselves out to be. I always thought a organization with the word Crusade in it's title was a little sketchy.

    We can't just ban a organization based on their beliefs. I also think comparing them to the KKK is quite extreme. However,I do think that it's a fine thing to talk over with the organizations leadership. This may be a good challange for the students of this blog to address.

    Prof. Chaos

  4. A funny thing just happened. I was going to write that the analogy between Campus Crusade for Christ and the KKK was not a good one for a number of reasons. But then the more I started thinking about it, the more I found myself agreeing with it.

    The biggest difference I thought was that the KKK actually harms people and intimidates them. Campus Crusade doesn't physically harm people. That's what I was going to write about. But if they are actually preaching that people are going to hell for not believing what they believe, isn't that psychological harm? The KKK intends to intimidate people, but while Crusade doesn't want to intimidate, what they do can have the same effect. Maybe we can say that Crusade is not intending harm whereas the KKK does. Ok, so maybe that it the key difference. The KKK and Campus Crusade can produce the same consequences of harm, intimidation, and discrimination. But the key difference is that the KKK intends those consequences and Crusade does not.

    By Crusade not attending the diversity rally because they did not want to associate themselves with LGBT at all, that has the effects of letting LGBT people know that LGBT people are different in a bad bad way (discrimination) and that they are going to hell for what they are doing (intimidation). If I was LGBT, that would produce very hurtful feelings in myself (harm).

    It would be a pretty shitty thing for a Crusade person to say that they didn't really mean to produce those bad effects, that it is just the way things are because they are following God's word. In my book, they may not be as malicious as the KKK, but they sure smack of the same kind of effects as the KKK. I think the analogy is good enough then.

    Why are we allowing them to be an actual UWW student org???

  5. Oh December 31, There is no need to stir up a hornets nest over such a small issue. Besides, there are much bigger fish to fry so keep your eyes on the prize. So what if the Crusaders do not support the LGBT agenda. They have lot of company. I have already addressed the comparison between the thugs in the KKK and the Crusaders so I will not make a second comment except to say that I still find it inappropriate.

    Sam's advice is to let sleeping dogs lie.


  6. Hey Sam, well i agree with you that this organization is in no comparison to the KKK i will have to say that their actions do still deserve our thought and time. Does " Do as we say or you will burn for eternity" not strike you as harm? I recall that we used to a Atheist organization on campus and they never threatened belivers with eternal damnation.

    I think my preivious comment stands. Well we shouldn't ban this organization we should cetainly call them out on their discrimination because they ARE a offical campus organization and as such they are bound by the rules, one of those rules is that no campus organization can discriminate against any student.

    Going back to the rally remember that it was made to oppose ALL hate not just LGBT. There are more violent crimes then just LGBT issues. Now, if i recall correctly Christians talk a big game about kindness, forgiveness, and being all round "good" people. It doesn't make sense to me why a organization that claims to support the message of Jesus wouldn't support a rally about reducing violence on our campus .

    You can talk about LGBT issues or not but the fact remains that if you disagree with some regardless if they are gay, Christian, Republican, Liberal or otherwise you shouldn't beat the shit out of them for it. That's what happened to those students. Well outright supporting LGBT students may be against the AGENDA of the Crusade i don't think giving silent consent to people who use such violance is neither very Christian or becoming of anyone who claims they are a good person.

    Prof. Chaos

  7. Prof. I agree with you. Call them out if you must, but they are really not that different from many bible belt Christians. They talk a good game but have no follow through. I just think it is a waste of time but Sam stand with you.

  8. Interesting bit to note:

    "US Supreme Court case: Christian Legal Society v. Martinez. The ruling allows Hastings School of Law in San Francisco, a public institution, to refuse recognition to a campus Christian group which excludes from membership students who refuse to sign a statement of faith and adhere to the tenet that sexual activity should not occur outside of marriage between a man and a woman. Hastings policy states that all campus organizations must be open to all students at all levels."

    Would CCC allow LGBT to join and genuinely participate at all levels of the organization?

  9. Now that is an interesting question! My gut assumption is that they would not permit LGBT to participate, but I could be wrong here.

  10. First thing, I may be way off here, but I'm under the impression that LGBT would not be interested in joining CCC they most likely are not Christians, and don't believe in the Bible. Again, I could just be making a bad assumption here, but it's my guess.
    Second, I honestly don't find anything wrong with the idea of a religious organization at the University sharing their viewpoints with other students, regardless of whether or not one of those viewpoints is that students will go to hell if they don't follow certain rules. Students should be able to think freely enough at this institution to take a stand on the issue for themselves. I mean, anyone can choose to disassociate from the CCC, and call shananagans on what they preach. I think people are too sensitive these days, and take religion way to seriously, and honestly, are too weak to be critical of these kinds of religious viewpoints that are held by the CCC. Instead it's "oh this is harmful to me, so let's get rid of this org". I say you either choose to believe it and be scared, or not believe it and not be scared.
    So be critical, ask questions, call bullshit, or just ignore the whole thing all together. Just don't claim it's hurtful to you or anyone else, because we all have minds of our own that we can use to make the choice to be affected in the first place.

  11. uh huh, then Anon 11:48 you would be fine letting the skin heads and Al-Qaeda form student groups. You would also be fine allowing, say, "Students Hate LGBT" be a student group. Is that what you are saying? If not, then where do you draw the line?

  12. Well, anon 12:25, think about the agendas of the types of groups you are talking about, and the agenda of the CCC. It's illogical to say the groups are congruent. The CCC is not forcing opinions, threatening violence, or declaring hate for a certain group of people due to sexual orientation, race, etc. Furthermore, I feel the CCC is just about as harmful as my television. Luckily I have the remote so I can change the channel or turn it off and get up and do something else.
    As far as where I draw the line, I'd say no harm no foul, but obviously what's considered "harm" is not always agreed upon.
    An imaginary group like "Students Hate LGBT" would be harmful because the purpose of the group is to display hatred for a group of people due to their sexual orientation, which is senseless. However, that is not the case with the CCC, therefore I don't feel any harm is being done. If the CCC is not allowing LGBT to participate, that does not mean the CCC hates and intends to harm those individuals, it just means they do not share the same ideals, and want to keep theirs from being dissolved.
    Overall it's a hairy situation with the CCC talking about students going to hell and possibly discriminating against LGBT, but I don't think the answer is to get rid of the CCC.
    We can't just nix it because some people got their feelings hurt unintentionally. Now if the CCC was running around purposely harassing, threatening, or scaring students, then there's a real problem.

  13. As a member of the Navigators, another Christian org on campus, I understand many of the issues going on here. We recently changed our constitution when some campus officials brought an article to our attention, which essentially discouraged nonchristians from joining the leadership team. We quickly complied with their wishes to changed the article, and as it stands there is no longer a shade of discrimination. This was not challenging for us for two reasons: one, we genuinely and officially desire that all people would feel welcome, and two, we imagine it would be a challenge, to say the least, for a nonchristian to lead bible studies and prayer meetings anyway.

    In regard to the tract, I believe that the words that CCC used have been slightly misrepresented. They are, in fact, not a threat, since to threaten someone one must have the will and power to follow through. CCC, as a group of Christian humans, has neither the will or power to send anyone to hell, or heaven for that matter. Rather, these words are a warning. Here is what I mean: in a threat, person A tells person B about their fate at the hands of person A, where a warning involves person A telling person B about their fate at the hands of someone else, person C, or God as the case may be. CCC won't judge you; they can't. They are simply warning you about what the Bible says about our fate. Look up Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43 to see what CCC is warning you about, and to see the aforementioned image of a furnace of fire. I would hold that the problem here isn't with CCC, it is instead with God. I shall leave that fish for you to fry.

    To return to the more recent issue in the thread, I believe that CCC doesn't mean to exclude anyone, that would be counterproductive to their cause (as well as mine). The fact that no statement, official or otherwise, has been brought up which bars Christians from supporting the diversity event supports this. You can't determine the Christian population of a crowd simply by looking at it. And so, CCC leaves the ball in everyone else's court; the decision for a nonchristian to attend a Christian event or not is still left up to the nonchristian.

    Brian Zwick

  14. If the problem is with God, then maybe we should ban God from campus. We don't need a God who discriminates based on religion. That would be against our morals.