Friday, October 21, 2011
Some Professors have Unrealistic Expectations (by anon)
Why is it that professors seem to expect us to be perfect students when they themselves don’t follow their own rules? Why do I have to come to class when I’m obviously very sick and can’t even talk due to coughing all the time, simply because I don’t want to pay a doctor to write me a note that says I’m ill? Some of my professors won’t even accept a note from the university health center! They say I have to go to a real hospital to diagnose me with a minor illness that will probably pass in a day or two. And these same professors will cancel a class due to a common cold! So if YOU are sick then I don’t need to learn but If I’m puking my guts out I better drive myself to a hospital to get a legit excuse or get my butt to class. And you expect me to read 100 pages worth of material for each class? Well I wouldn’t have a problem with this if it didn’t take some professors weeks to grade a simple assignment! If you expect me to work hard in your class, then at least do the same. Yeah you might have 30 papers to read and grade, which I admit can be time consuming, I have 4 other classes that I have to do work in. And you don’t hear me telling my history Prof I didn’t finish my paper because I had to read for political science. No, I get all my work done on time so I expect my professors to do so too. I’m so sick of seeing unrealistic expectations from my professors in their syllabi. If you yourself can’t even follow the guidelines you set up for your students then change them. If I can’t a miss a class, then neither should the professor. If late work isn’t accepted, then you better not forget anything because I will not hear it after the lecture period it was supposed to be said in. Just use common sense people! Don’t do anything to your students that you wouldn’t want done to yourself.
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So true, so true.
ReplyDeleteIt's the game, play it or get lost. Stop crying like little children. You are definitely not elite school material. You cannot even meet expectations at a B school. How will you be able to compete in the real world once you leave here? Boo hoo, so life is not fair, but it was never designed to be, so get used to it now. By the way, suck it up and do the work. You can make your own rules once you have obtained your advanced degrees, meanwhile the operative word to remember is OBEY. Your profs like in the movie, Judge Dred, are the law. Soon, after graduation you will eat shit from your boss, so it best to learn to acclimate yourself to the taste here. Resistance is futile. Adapt or perish!
ReplyDeleteIts about time there was a post like this! Professors have to do their job right. They expect us to do our job right, why shouldnt they? I have a professor who has been late to class a bunch already. Its only a few minutes late but god knows that we shouldnt be late. Professors should be docked pay if they are late to class. We pay to go to class, professors are paid. they should pay us back for being late!
ReplyDelete5:37 How many times do I have to tell you. A university is based on power and you do not have ANY. Get used to it because for the rest of your life unless you get lucky you will never have much power, except over the kids in your own family if you have any.
ReplyDeleteIn society at all level, you learn to play by the established rules. Most of you graduating from this ultra conservative institution will become cogs in mainstream American society and will never buck the system, for you are too afraid.
By the way, profs do not care if you are late or if you leave class early. Most could care less if you even showed up at all. Stay in your dorm room and suck beer and eat pizza. I thought this was what you beer suckers and pizza eaters wanted, no attendance policies. Well, you got it.
Stay thirty my friends.
Haha 7:11. I thought we dismissed you from this blog a while ago...
ReplyDeleteAnywho - if anyone really thinks that all professors do not care if one is late or leaves class early, that assumption is DEAD WRONG!!!
I have a professor who I know for a fact gets really miffed when students leave class early (or even get up to go to the bathroom) or come in late. There's like a stare-down and it's scary - sometimes I don't want to get up and leave, even though I have to pee really bad, just so I can avoid being glared at by the professor in front of the whole class as I shuffle my way out. I usually don't have to go - but I like to drink a lot of water/tea/coffee sometimes, before and during class, and that makes me have to pee often, and it is an hour and fifteen minute long class after all. So yeah - some professors DO get upset about that stuff and they make students feel bad about it, as though the student is just that much of an asshole that he/she just likes to walk out of class willy-nilly just to piss off the professor or something.
3:22, I'm the poster, and I just wanted to say that I NEVER said I couldn't meet the expectations or didn't do my work. In fact, I'm doing quite well in school. Never gotten below a A- in any class. This isn't a rant about me doing bad in school and blaming my profs. I'm simply noticing how some profs have extreme rules for their students but when it comes to themselves they are the complete opposite. I know life isn't fair, but I still have the right to rant about it every now and then. And please, in the future, don't assume that when people have problems with their educational system that they aren't doing their work or are doing badly.
ReplyDelete711 And this is the reason you will never be someone who will challenge social, political, and economic inequities in our society and will more than likely fall in with the silent majority, mostly conservative white people, after you graduate. Your sense of moral and political outrage will be limited to a blog page. After all, you are too afraid to even get up in class and go to the bathroom when you have to urinate. There is no need for you to sit in class and urinate or shit on yourself because you are afraid of a middle age professor. If that is the extent of your sense of courage you need to start wearing diapers. I can recommend a good brand, as you age young sky walker the prostrate goes bad
ReplyDelete3:22, then the purpose of your post was just to vent or rant? Okay, I am going to rant too. You should be glad that some of your profs are not accepting all the bullshit students dish out and are calling their asses on it. Getting them prepared for life after college.
ReplyDeleteWillis, we live in a world with rules and walls that must be guarded. Who's gonna do it? You 3:22? Profs have more responsibility than you can fathom. You rant over missed potty breaks and curse some of your profs. You don't know what we know. Our expectations saves lives of students. And my existence, while grotesque to you, saves student's lives! But deep down, in places
you don't talk about at your beer sucking parties, - you need me enforcing the rules and up on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. They're the backbone of our lives. You use them as a punchline! I haven't the time or inclination to explain myself - to a someone who needs my protection and assistance - but questions the way I do it. Better just to thank me. Or pick up a book and teach yourself. But I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to! Your education depends on me being up on that damn wall. Yes, I ordered the code red!
Stay thirsty my friend.
"A Few Good Professors"????? A little extreme?
ReplyDeleteI guess I don't understand what is so off-putting about the post? There need to be fair expectations, right? And expectations that are not blatant double-standards. Just because we have Ph.D.s doesn't mean that we can set whatever expectations on our students. That's pretty straightforward. Students and profs should have reasonable expectations and responsibilities.
Rant all you want but you need me up on that wall.
ReplyDeleteWhat does that even mean, Colonel, in this context?
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience, there are generally two types of professors (and remember, this is a generalization, so it's not flawless, but it has a purpose). One, there are professors who are genuinely FOR the students. They want their students to learn, and they do the best they can to facilitate that learning. Their teaching styles and expectations will vary as there are a plurality of personalities and talents. But there is a genuine willingness to work WITH the students for that goal. Sure, they might lay down some hard and fast expectations, but they will be within reason with the goal of student learning always at the forefront. These professors generally view their students as adults deserving of adequate respect.
Then, the other kind, are the professors who are generally AGAINST their students. They view their students as irresponsible, lazy, and not caring one bit about really learning anything. They approach their teaching as if they are going into the trenches to spar with the enemy. They frequently complain about how students don't give proper respect anymore, how students are spoon-fed too much, how students do this, or don't do that, and how the admission standards are much too low... These professors are complainers and point fingers at the students for any problems they are having in the classroom.
I had a lengthy conversation with the "contrary" kind of professor the other day, and I must say that I don't get it. If that is your attitude towards students, there's little chance that your students are going to learn much. Of course, he said that he shouldn't have to cater to students at all. "I should not have to entertain them to get them to learn! It is their responsibility to learn as I give them the information." Well, those days are over, if those days ever existed. "The problem is that students are getting worse and worse." The quality of our students should not impinge upon our attitudes towards teaching.
For those professors who have sour attitudes, you just need to leave. Our job is way too important for someone not to have the right general mindset. Do something else that you enjoy, and leave the teaching to the professors who still want to make a positive difference in our students.
Eh, sorry. This got long. The point of the generalization is that these kinds of conversations need to happen frequently so that us professors are keeping each other in check. If let unchecked, too many might slip into sour grapes mode and lose sight of why teaching is so crucially important.
12:05,
ReplyDeleteYou don't know jack! You damn right its a generalization, a very poor one at that.
So you are happy teaching at a B level school with mostly B level students. If that is your game then run with it. But don't tell us that we have to leave here because we don't think like you. We have a right just like you to be here and think any damn way we please. We love good students who work hard and wish we could send the rest to your love fest.
If you want to continue coddling poor, lazy good for nothing beer sucking pizza eating students then do it but don't tell us that we have to follow in your footsteps and don't tell us that we have to stop complaining.
So stay thirsty my friend.
Yes, we've had this conversation before, if memory serves me correctly (last June on this blog). We have a difference in philosophy. I'm definitely the idealist, and you are the downtrodden pragmatist.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe UWW has to be a B level school in teaching at all. It's attitude, training, and practice. You get those and chances are you will be a fine teacher. Not to mention that the market is flooded with very talented PhDs right now, so all of our new hires should be fantastic.
As for B level students, UWW students are actually all over the map in terms of ability. But that doesn't matter. We teach who we get, and we should teach our best to those we get.
And I am telling you that bad attitude teachers should get the hell out of teaching. There is no room for that, not when education is so important. I don't have to think like you and coddle along those teachers that shouldn't be here anymore. Who are you protecting?
I'll stay thirsty, but it sounds like you need to get thirsty (again?).
Oh my god, its you again. I thought I knocked your ass out in the summer but I can do it again.
ReplyDeleteAt least you appear to agree with me now, that UWW is a solid second rate B level institution. This, my idealistic friend, is solid progress and you get an A grade. How do you like that, we agree!
But I have a few questions on your next point, that attitude, training and practice would make me and my contrary colleagues better teachers, and if successful would move UWW from a B to the A level in teaching. Surely Mr. Feynman you must be kidding! Quality teaching is not going to change the low status of this campus.
You were, however, wise to limit your argument to teaching because I would have completely destroyed your ass had you argued that quality teaching alone would change the B level status of this campus. So given this major concession, I will not discuss other indicator of institutional quality. Lets move on.
Your next argument is weak as hell. Where do you get these ideas from? Do you really believe that with attitude, training, and practice a person can become a good teacher?
How do you adjust the attitudes of downtrodden and contrary faculty member like me and the one mentioned in your earlier post You have a lot of work to do if you want to change our attitudes, just attend any Faculty Senate meeting and you will see some real angry people, more of my contrary colleagues.
Moving on, what about training? Were you trained when you came here? Where did they perform the training, at the local vets office or at Pet Smart? I am mocking you here but from where I stand, you train dogs, horses and other animals, you educate a person, except small children, you have to potty train them or spend time cleaning up crap, sort of what I am doing here.
Practice is the next one you mentioned. How does this work out? Who do you practice on? If you say that you are practicing on live students, then during the time of your so called practice period, you must be a bad teacher. By the way, did anyone in your department do anything for you after they hired you? Did you receive any kind of training or practice or did they just throw your ass into the classroom? There is not a single faculty member on this campus who received any kind of training or practice after they were hired. So your theory of attitude, training, and practice is just more bullshit and hot air.
Finally, students here are not all over the board. Their ACT scores, if I recall correctly, are usually between 18 - 25. This campus has been known to enroll students with ACT scores as low as 15, even a few felons have been recruited to play sports. Now we have a few good students here, there are simply not enough of them. A real superior student should not come here period and they usually don't. Most faculty members do not send their own kids here or at comparable UW state institutions. That should tell you something!
There you go again telling me to adjust my attitude or get the hell out of teaching. I heard this argument before, that if you do not like the way this country is governed, then get the hell out. Well my friend, I am not going anywhere. We will remain here like the unknown cast of zombies on the Walking Dead. After a few more years in the trenches you may even join us. We will keep the light on.
Stay thirsty my idealistic friend.
Hey Mr. Idealism:
ReplyDeleteHere are more of the UW Whitewater beer sucking and pizza eaters busted.
Printed in Wisconsin State Journal:
An underage drinking party in Whitewater has led to about 90 arrests. Whitewater police say that after Thursday's party, they're recommending charges against several residents of the home. A Janesville Gazette report says the charges include furnishing alcohol to minors, selling alcohol without a license and failing to prevent underage consumption of alcohol.
This is the second straight year that a large-scale bust occurred just before the UW-Whitewater's homecoming. Last year, police arrested 132 people at a house party.
And in 2002, 200 youths were arrested for underage drinking in the basement of a Whitewater home. Police say they focus on preventing large-scale house parties because authorities want to deter underage and binge drinking.
Stay thirsty my friends.
I guess I don't remember you knocking my ass out by any means. You might want to take off those skewed goggles.
ReplyDeleteI worded my sentence about UWW and B-schools carefully. I didn't say whether I thought UWW was B level or not. Of course, UWW is not at the tippy-top of anything, but that hardly means anything below that is B-grade. If anything below the likes of Swarthmore or Harvard is considered B-grade, then you might have to rethink your taxonomy because B-grade then looks pretty good. My point is that wherever UWW happens to be, we are certainly not renown for the best of the best teaching, but that we should strive for such heights.
Yes, one can learn to be a good teacher. Can one learn to be an awesome teacher? That I'm not sure about (said in a sincere tone). But given some training on presentation style, syllabus writing, assignment construction, and even general pointers from noted great teachers can do a lot given that the instructor has the willingness to learn.
You have such a black and white mentality. Certainly practice in teaching is teaching. It's not that there are the Good and everyone else is the Bad, and that before one reaches the Good, one is Bad. It's a process, which shouldn't have to be said. So I'll end this point because it is so obvious.
Frankly, I don't know how to change the bad attitudes of some UWW instructors. I know that they are a plenty. I do have some thing in the pipeline to address this issue, but it will take time for implementation. I have heart, however, because there are quite a few who share my view and realize that our jobs are way too important not to address this problem.
I must say that I am puzzled as to why you are so disagreeable to my position. In fact, I think you're just goading because why would you even care to respond to me if your attitude is that bad? You wouldn't care enough.
With all of our new great hires and the mass of retirements we had last year because of Walker, UWW is moving in the right direction.
Does your professor's name start with "e" and end with "meet"?
ReplyDeleteHa ha, changed your position yet again. I will not waste any more of my time with the likes of you because all you will do is change it again. Good luck with your project to change us. We will be waiting and will reserve a position for you on the contrary walking dead. I am confident that in the coming years you will come around. We are many and we will wait for you.
ReplyDeleteLol 3:24 - You have such a defective mind to be saying the things you are saying, and not getting what "Mr. Idealism" is saying. I think you're jealous because you know you're a shitty professor, and you don't know how to be good like Mr. Idealism, so you scorn the students, and demoralize yourself. Just because you're stuck in your ways and your thinking is defective doesn't mean there's no hope for the upcoming generations of college students. There's this concept of "change" you seem to have no understanding of, which is pretty depressing. I've read the comments by "Mr. Idealism" and he maintains a consistent position. He just keeps having to re-iterate his ideas in a new fashion every time they bounce off your thick skull.
ReplyDeleteSo you say UWW is a B level institution. Big fucking deal, so what if it is? All you do by saying that is define the university, and you lock it into this category of being inferior. You doing this only perpetuates the thought that UWW is a shit university, with shit faculty, and shit students. Well, I've just got to say this - sometimes gardens are shitty because the gardeners themselves don't care to put themselves, their passion, their heart, or their energy, into cultivating the mess of rotted veggies from years ago, so they stand around, overwhelmed by the accumulated shit that has become their garden, and they figure it's easier to sit on the porch and watch it continue to rot instead of work harder on it, and in the meantime, they complain about the state of affairs and mock every "idiot" who actually goes ahead and attempts to cultivate the garden by putting him/herself into making it good and fruitful for others.
You are a bad gardener, but my guess is that at some point in time, you were more like Mr. Idealism, but somewhere along the line, you lost hope and gave up on gardening all together. Well, what's that for? How is that attitude beneficial?
11:29, There are good students on this campus but your stupid ass is not one of them. Your writing skills are absolutely terrible. I will not even respond to the stupidities expressed in your badly written post.
ReplyDeleteHaha.. even more hilarious, 4:20. This is a blog, so my writing on here isn't going to be immaculate...but you can't just use that as an excuse to ignore what I've said (I can't imagine it was that incomprehensible, even for someone like you). I think you just don't have an answer, and you don't care to come up with one because you have a hard time dealing with "ideas", so you make irrelevant comments about my supposed lack of writing skills (comments which every professor I've ever had, not to mention a few people from the university's writing award committee, would disagree with you on), just so you can appease your need to concretely define me and my writing, instead of actually addressing my overall idea (which wasn't too obscure if you ask me).
ReplyDeleteHaving a Phd in the social sciences, having taught, and having gone back to school to get a degree in business I will tell you right off the bat most profs don't know what they are doing. Works loads do not make sense assignments do not make sense etc. Part of it you just have to deal with part of it you should call them on.
ReplyDelete