Until this past year, I was confused about exactly what I believed in terms of religion. Today however, there is no doubt. I believe religion to be one of the biggest scams and wastes of time in history. Think about it in this simple way. As governments began to form and people began to rule others, they realized they needed a way to control the population through more than just law. They realized the simplest way to control a large group of people is to simply tell them if they don’t do what you want, then they will go to hell for eternity after they die. Today I hear people talking about all these great things god does for them and I want to walk up to them and slap them in the head. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Apparently, the hard work people put in throughout their lives doesn’t mean shit because wherever you end up is simply where god meant for you to be. One thing that really pisses me off is how politicians, Republicans in particular, try to use god and the bible to prove their points to be correct. With the upcoming of the tea party in the past years it’s more adamant now than ever. Yet, if you sit down and talk to these people and present them with what’s really in the bible, they simply say we interpreted it wrong and that their way is correct. All religious people do is turn the bible and whatever their god says around to mean exactly what they want it to mean. I could sit here and type for hours about the reasons religion pisses me off, but I think you get the drift.
While I agree with the idea that various governments throughout history have (and continue to) use religion to control a population, I definitely do not agree that religion serves no purpose, even for an educated population. The main religions offer very similar moral codes about how to live and they all have people who interpret the religion differently (some liberally, some radically).
ReplyDeleteYour comments seem to lump all religions into the same closed-minded group. There is a religious spectrum and a very diverse protestant spectrum with people believing very different things. Religion provides a basic moral code for society (do not kill, respect other people, share what we have) and many of the new testament lessons are very liberal and radical in nature. Jesus teaching us to love *all* our neighbors (not just those who share our own particular beliefs - religious, political, or otherwise), sharing wealth with the poor (even redistributing wealth!), and taking care of the sick/poor of society.
In my opinion, these are all lessons that many in the money-hungry, self-centered, xenophobic US could definitely learn from to improve our society.
While this is all true, we are humans for goodness sakes. We do not need a god telling us what is right and what is wrong, we've figured it out for ourselves. Religions have helped us in the past but now we need them no more. They are more of a hinderance than a help and those xenophobic and money hungry people of the US are also human. We as a human race have been unwelcome to outsiders and greedy since the beginning of time and transcendence from that can only come through understanding, not just the word of a god. Many of those greedy and xenophobic people /are/ people of gods so it brings to light religion has also lost it's potency.
Delete9:06, I see that you were suggesting not all religions are close-mided, after which you go on to defend christianity... Definitely not what I would have thought of as an example of an open-minded religion. Actually, I don't think open-mindedness and religion can go hand in hand at all, considering the fact that you HAVE to ignore reality to actually believe in the religion itself...
ReplyDeleteAnd while it may seem like religion serves a purpose for morality and so on, it actually isn't necessary at all. All the morals in the bible are really morals that human beings have created and lived by themselves for centuries. I don't need a religion to act morally. And those that act morally solely because someone tells them to in order to avoid punishment and receive rewards really aren't moral beings at all.
Does it REALLY make sense to suggest that a government or group of people seeking control and power created the Bible? The very idea of power is described in such a counter-intuitive way (today's intuition, at least) by Jesus and others that it's impossible for them to be seeking power. Luke wrote in his gospel about Jesus saying the following: "Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves." Does that sound like a strategy to gain power? James wrote about the same idea in his book ("Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the wold to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised to those who love him?") and Paul in several of his books ("Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ"). These three men, and thousands of others, were killed to defend what they knew was the truth. Would you die for a lie? If you were unsure if it was a lie or not, wouldn't you at least consider it as the nails were driven into your hands? These men weren't seeking power for themselves, they were seeking glory for God, something which has not died out, even though they have. There is nothing about the Bible that gives someone a reason to gain a person wealth or power or glory or honor in this world. It is all to gain a person wealth and power and glory and honor in heaven. What a useless political agenda!
ReplyDeleteOh boy, lots to unpack here. Let's start with the conspiracy theory:
ReplyDelete"As governments began to form and people began to rule others, they realized they needed a way to control the population through more than just law. They realized the simplest way to control a large group of people is to simply tell them if they don’t do what you want, then they will go to hell for eternity after they die."
When I first became an atheist, I believed wierd stuff about the church: "The Pope and the Cardinals KNOW there's know god; they're just power hungry!" Both these are cases of atheists being as foolish as fundamentalists. Even if we can write of some religions as being tools of the state, we can't write off all religions. As far as I know there's no evidence the bible was written by scheming politicians, and while there are con men preachers it's difficult to believe that ALL religious men are con men. Please, let's not get caught up in all-or-none thinking.
Okay, about the bible. Unfortuanately, there probably is no "right" way to interpret it. We bring our own ideas into our reading and see what we want to see. Out of the influence of humanism, mainstream religions emphasize passages that are consistent with these virtues. Unfortunately, if we are honest with ourselves, the bible also contains passages chirstian humanists don't like to talk about so much. Some examples: Matt. 10. 34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" [what happened to turning the other cheek?] As for the problem of evil, well, God solved that for us long ago, Is. 45:7 "I make peace and create evil"
"There is nothing about the Bible that gives someone a reason to gain a person wealth or power or glory or honor in this world"
"these are all lessons that many in the money-hungry, self-centered, xenophobic US could definitely learn from to improve our society"
hmm then why does the bible (supposedly) advocate capitalism? http://www.garynorth.com/public/department57.cfm
(Cont.) Now those who think the entire bible is the word of God will be sure to say, "well, you see, that's not how you REALLY interpret those passages. You can't interpret them literally [so I guess we inerpret literally the passages we happen to like].
ReplyDeleteSome Christians are more rasonable. My mother told me that the prophets were guided by the holy spirit, but man errs, so we should read the bible with a keen eye. This, along with the issue that the bible has been translated and transcribed many times over, can help explain away the discrepencies in the numbers here and there, but it really doens't help us with the bigger inconsistencies, because how are we supposed to know the REAL meaning?
Now, the issue of people dieing for their faith. Inspiring...or foolheardy? Christians should be reminded about the 39 Americans who commited suicide in search of "Heaven's Gate" or the many islamic terrorists who are CERTAIN there are 40 virgins waiting for them after death. Being certain enough to commit suicide does not mean one was right, sadly. As Burtrand Russel said, wisely, "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong"
So is there a God? I really have no clue. There are so many arguments for and against God, and particular Gods, it makes my head spin. I need to do a LOT more research. Not only do I not know if there's a god, I'm not even sure if it can be known in priniple (the matrix/brain in a bottle objection is strong, but there's the hidden data problem: religious people may have come up with an answer to this problem that I'm not currently aware of). It's too early in my study process for me to get depressed about not knowing.
Or, we could just wait for the Hale-Bopp comet to come around again...
Atheists make me laugh. You criticize us Christians for some kind of conspiracy when you are the ones concocting this conspiracy. The Bible was written over a period of 1000 years by over 60 authors. I don't see how a conspiracy can come out of that. You are also upset that we talk about truth and a right way to interpret the Bible. But you are doing the same thing. When you say that the Bible is lying or false or whatever, you are saying that you know the truth. When you say that the Bible can be interpreted many ways, how do you know? You seem to be pretty sure that you are right in saying that.
ReplyDeleteChristians are the only consistent ones here. We say that there is one truth and that the Bible is the way to know this truth. You don't have to agree but we are more consistent than atheists when they criticize us. The right way to read the Bible is to let the Holy Spirit guide you. When you resist that your heart and mind won't be open to understand the Bible right. Maybe you should try it.
You're the only one in this blog who I agree with.
DeleteChristfilth stupidity and dishonesty makes me want to vomit.
DeleteYour genocidal hate manual doesn't agree with ITSELF, never mind having any other kind of consistency, other than wanting to enslave, rape, murder and torture as many people as possible.
Micah,
ReplyDeleteWhen atheists say that the the bible can be interpretated many ways, they are basing it on the simple fact that multiple sects and cults all claim that THEIR interpretaton of the bible is the right one. And they are pretty certain in saying that. So what? Are you certain that there is only one "right" way to interpret the bible? How do you know that? As if reference to the "holy spirit" (how do you know there is one?) can resolve this! If the "holy spirit" could guide christians to the "right" interpretation of the bible, then there wouldn't be so much disagreement (unless you think that the holy spirit inhibits only the chosen few and guides them to the "right" interpretation of the bible. But then how are we supposed to know who is really possesed of the holy spirirt?)
Sorry, christians are not more consistent than atheists. At best both are wrong in thinking they have the truth, but then skepticisim wins, which is no good for christianity either.
Of course *sigh* I could be wrong about everything I wrote above...
What a bunch of crap Micah. Religion is toxic. Period. How anyone can stay in that shit for too long is beyond me? Let's see, what does religion do, or should I say Christianity? It makes you feel guilty if you are not following what you are supposed to do. If you are caught not doing what you are supposed to do, you feel shame. When you are trying to follow what you are supposed to do, you are never quite sure what that is you are supposed to do because how do you ever know if you are following God's way the way you are supposed to. You're kind of fucked either way.
ReplyDeleteIf you stay "sinning" for too long, your fellow believers will shame you so much that you become "outside" of the group. You become labeled and some people will probably start questioning whether you really are Christian or not. Whoever said that Christianity is a religion of grace got it so wrong because every Christian I know makes it out to be what it is that you do.
Christianity is all about control. Once it gets a hold of you, it has the tools of guilt and shame to hold you in place. The bottom line is fear. There is the initial veil of safety and presumably knowing that everything is going to be alright. But once you're in, safety turns to shit scared.
Micah, I can only imagine you are shaking your head as if I get nothing of what you are saying. But for all your singing and praising and loving that great big hunk of a guy in the sky, you are also believing that there is a hell. You don't believe you are going there. But how do you know? Since no one knows the mind of God, since no one knows whether one's belief is truly sincere or not, it is always possible that hell is waiting for you. And so you will always have some primal fear in you.
Give it up. Live free. And lose that guilt, shame, and fear that should not be a part of any person's life.
You're such a big fat liar. Your prejudice sickens me. If you wanna be an atheist for the rest o' your life, that's your choice. But quit painting all theists with one brush. Instead, try and get to know them more without bein' too judgmental to them.
DeleteWhat the absolute fuck?
DeleteThis argument against religion is so annoying. The exact same spin can be put on any organization. Governments for example. How many people in the world have died for their country. A book club is just trying to control what you read. College is just trying to control what you learn. Ect. Ect. To say that religion is a scam, that powerful people use to control people is just nonsense. I will not deny that some people use it to their advantage but that's not what religion is about. Atleast religion in our country is a choice. If it was forced, you might be able to call religion a scam/conspiracy. Otherwise if religion is a scam then so is every organization in the world.
ReplyDeleteOn second thought, Micah's not the only one who I agree with in this blog. Your the only other person who I also agree, except for the part about college.
DeleteHah. Everyone's wrong. Life is the only hell. Afterlife (a.k.a. death) is the only Heaven. Period. We'll all be in peace when we die so let's not make a fuss now! And if your religion tells you to trust the government - tell your religion to F**K off! We're not programmable machines, and we all have a mind of our own which was given to us all by God (a.k.a Nature). SO USE IT and spend the time/energy figuring shit out for yourself instead of blindly following some stupid religious doctrine or bullshit regimen which was prescribed by someone you've never even met. Or, remain a slave and do what your told. While you're at it, sew your eyes, ears, and mouths shut. You'll be better, more obedient slaves that way.
ReplyDeleteSoooo much focus on the negatives about religion. Everything has negatives, especially man-made things, and yes, religion is man-made. Let's take the argument atheists use against God and the problem of evil. Christians say that humans are evil and that's why there is evil in the world. Atheists say that God created humans so therefore God is evil for creating evil humans and therefore we shouldn't follow such an evil being. Let's apply that to religion. Religion is toxic, so therefore the creators of religion are toxic. Same logic. But here's where I say why God isn't evil for creating humans but religion is still evil because of it's evil creator. God made humans with free will. Religion was not made with free will. Humans can consciously think and make decisions by themselves, religion cannot. Religion does only what humans tell it to or shape it to do, the same does not apply to humans and their relationship with God. Also, if you blame God for evil in this world, then shouldn't you blame the parents of serial killers or rapists or any other human that commits terrible crimes? Lock the parents up instead of their children because they were the ones who created this child and gave it guidance and direction and morals! But then we have to go back and blame their parents, and their parents, and their parents, forever regressing. I guess for determinists that would make sense and be okay, but come on, do we, or anyone else for that matter, live in that kind of world? Nope. Sure don't.
ReplyDeleteAnd when people feel shame or guilt from sinning, that isn't coming from God. God does not condemn, the devil does. The devil is the one making people feel guilty and shameful because that is the devil's tool to take people further from God. God makes people feel loved and accepted. He is the only one who can ever unconditionally love anyone. He gives people peace and refuge when they cannot carry their burdens themselves any longer. He offers love and forgiveness and grace and takes away people's shame and guilt and sadness and makes them new again and gives them hope. I have felt it. I have seen it. It might sound crazy to you, but that's okay because I am not trying to convert you, I'm just trying to open your mind a little bit and see the other side of Christianity.
(Cont.) I have seen so much good come out of Christianity. I've seen some not so good things either, but that doesn't cancel out the good that I have seen, not one bit. I've been cast out by other Christians before. It sucks. it's mean. It's not right. But if you talk with them nicely, if they really follow the teachings of Jesus, they will realize what they did wrong and work to fix it. I'm not going to deny that some people who claim to be Christians do not live the Christian lifestyle, but don't bash Christianity as a whole just because of bad "Christians." I've run into quite a few asshole atheists, but am I going to say that all atheists are arrogant douches? Of course not.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not too terribly sure how Christianity controls people. You could say that churches just want your money, but I know some churches that encourage you to give your 10%, but they don't tell you to give it to them, actually they don't tell specifically where to give it at all. They leave it up to you to decide where Jesus is telling you to give your 10%. For me, I have been given the opportunity to buy homeless and hungry adults and children meals whenever I am in Milwaukee. $6 here and there isn't much, but it's still my way of giving. I have never felt controlled by Christianity. yeah, there are rules and morals set forth in the bible, but they aren't a means to control you. They were set forth because God knew the best ways for you to live your life. And if you think about it, a lot of these rules and morals make sense. And where exactly does Christianity hold you in place? For what purpose? Who benefits from it? What mastermind is behind the scenes personally gaining from my individual faith and following in Jesus Christ? But you are right. Christianity DOES have a hold on me. I won't ever let it go because it has bettered my life in so many ways. I have seen and felt the power of God's love and grace. I am not shit scared. Not one bit. And I never have been, even before I came to Christianity. I wasn't lost searching for something. I wasn't scared. I wasn't anxious. I felt completely comfortable with not having God in my life. I hit a rough patch, as most people do every now and then, and God came to me and helped me. But it was just a rough patch. Freaking boy troubles. I wasn't depressed looking for something higher than me. I wasn't going to kill myself or anything. I was just upset because the men in my life were assholes to me. Whatever. No big deal. And that's also the beauty of it!! It WAS no big deal. I would have been okay. There were (and still are) people going through things worse than freaking boy troubles, but he still came to me!! He cared even about me being upset from a boy!! It just goes to show that He cares about EVERY SINGLE heartache of yours, no matter how big or how small they might seem to you.
Also, the argument that Christians are blindly lead into Christianity is bulllllshiiiiiiit. Lots of people (including myself) do do research and seek out answers themselves. I never had anyone force me into Christianity. It was all me deciding what I wanted to follow. Yes, some people grow up in church and surrounded by religion, but it is their choice whether to accept that belief system or religion.
(Cont.)
ReplyDeleteI don't see myself as a slave one bit. To whom would I even be a slave? To God? Oh, so then you're saying God does exist? To my parents? What benefit do they get out of me following Christianity? They don't have to deal with the stress of me having a baby out out wedlock because I don't have sex cause I'm not married? They don't have to deal with the stress and hurt of their daughter going on trial because I don't kill people? So that means that there are practical uses to the morals and rules the Bible sets forth?
I knowww there are people who use Christianity wrongly. I've seen posts on here where Christians are GLAD that a certain abortionist was killed "by the hands of God." I saw somewhere that a priest or something prayed for somebody who held opposing views to die (I am having the hardest time thinking where I saw it or the specific details... but I'm sure atheists won't get mad at me for that because I am stating something they would use in an argument against Christians and supporting their belief that Christianity is bad). Don't worry, these people hurt my heart too. That's not right and I would never praise these people for being so... unchristian. I will not deny or shy away from certain aspects of Christianity that I do not agree with or see flaws in (human practices and exercises of Christianity). I actually would want to embrace them and acknowledge that there are flaws, because acknowledging the flaws is the only way to fix the flaws.
True original poster...
ReplyDeleteWhen people refer to one book all the time (the Bible) they are seriously limiting their perspective of the world. Using one source NEVER portrays an accurate picture of reality.
And if you think about it... the notion that God created us and planned every move we make is a bit disheartening... where's our freedom to decide who we become and which paths we will take in life? If everything is pre-conceived then what's the point in making decisions for ourselves?
Church and state should be separated... politicians using religion as an instigator and reason for their actions is not legitimate enough of an explanation...
We aren't called to live by what religion says. We are called to live by faith. As Cristians, we are called to all believe the same thing. The Gospel. But each religion and denomination, or non denominational group have their own beliefs. Their own beliefs. Their own.
ReplyDeleteEat my flesh and drink my blood,, that gory voodoo canibalithm is practiced in countless catholic churches every day.YYYAKKK. The modern shawmen, witch doctors now called priests,bishops cardinals poops ,[ sorry pope] will have a much more yammy picnic in the bush next sunday. On the menue is barbecued holy mary virgin pussy . Lots of holy spirit too, like schnaps and natural holy smoke.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you, blogger. First, you sided against atheists. Now, you side with them. You make me sick with your lies.
ReplyDeleteFrom now on, whatever bad things happen to you are your problems. In other words, don't come cryin' to me if you experience them too much.
Religion is for those who can't think. Its the large majority and it makes them easy to control. Those who don't think r no better than animals that can't. Religion is a virus of the brain. Period
ReplyDeleteWhat a narrow-minded thing to claim. So what if people are into religion? They have a choice to be.
DeleteIf you're an atheist, good for you .But don't you dare broad brush all theists 'cause doin 'that makes you closed-minded.
Liar liar pants on fire.
DeleteIf I was God I would destroy this world and start over...
ReplyDeleteIf I'm God, I'd wipe out everyone and everything I hate, and replace them with everything I like forever.
DeleteReligion sucks. People claim that it brings people together, but in reality it separates people and it sucks. It gives reason for people to kill others. You may as well be the only person with a brain.
ReplyDeleteYou lie like a big fat dog, dickhead! You only think that just because just because you see the negativity in it and not the positivity. Well, that makes you a blind bigot.
DeleteHonestly, you think atheists are the only people with brains. Newsflash: Everyone has brains.
Instead of lumping all theists into one category, lay the hell off them. But if you refuse to, then fuck off and die!
http://www.amazon.it/Sun-Myung-Moon-Little-Syndrome-ebook/dp/B011HRMB56/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1446566375&sr=1-2&keywords=ulisse+di+bartolomei
ReplyDeleteWould you want to create a religion? No problem: some dollars, a lot of imagination and is done! Autobiographic tale of my twenty years in the Korean unifying movement of the self-styled “messiah + reverend” Sun Myung Moon, the Unification Church! Very active in the richest countries in the world. A recognition in the language denoted of plagiarism and self plagiarism, that characterize the interpersonal transaction in the mystical micro-cults. Strategies “no profit” to recycle a remarkable huge amount of money, deriving by philanthropic fundraising, in normal activities “full profit”. The secrets of the fundraising and sales “door to door”. Entirely transposed by my time in the more articulate, picturesque mystical enterprise of the history: the Moon’s sect or... the cleverest fraud of the history! An economic empire built on the fundraising, making the whole world believing of feeding nagger kids and not doing that even to one of them... An amusing narration, that unfortunately it pertains to one of the most ruinous evil of our time: the impoverishing speculation on the money in purpose of mere acquisition, without producing anything’s for the common benefit! For a limited period, will be available at 1.99 $
Ah, you're just full of yourself.
DeleteThe problem is, only Christians are under attack.Judaism is not so much a religion as it is Racial Mafia.
ReplyDeleteMost Atheists in America are Brainwashed Communists and are too Stupid to realize it. Watch Yuri Bezmenovs'," Warning to America", on Youtube.Joe Mcarthy was telling the truth, fools, but you believe he is the most evil man that ever lived.You see, when you are brainwashed you think truth is hate.
Most Christians in America are brainwashed, "Zionist Christians", who worship the Jews and Israel. Read the New Testament and see what Jesus had to say: You," Morons".
Positive Atheism is a Non-Jew and Non-Communist approach to Rejecting Religion.